Foreigner Series: Spoiler Alerts: Page 2

I’m giving the page a second section because page 1 was starting to behave oddly.

As always, wait at least 30 days from issue of the book before starting to discuss. And give our overseas friends some extra leeway: the distribution system doesn’t reach everywhere as fast!

1,556 Comments

  1. dlynn

    Copyeditors can apparently assume amazing power! (That one is fired!) I don’t know if a reader such as I would even recognize that paragraphs had been removed unless there was a distinct failure in sensible progress. But it is still hard for me to imagine that a book goes to print without a basic check for conventions while acknowledging that the computer check cannot identify all errors. Is the industry that pressed to get books out? Of course I am waiting for the next volume already!

    • CJ

      WHere they get power is by getting trusted—
      Book production is a frenetic dance of papers moving from one office to the other, and checks happen at the front end of this operation, with more and more automated steps taking over toward the end, and the c/e often fits right after the editor and supposedly is making directed changes. Theoretically—the writer gets to see the changes. When you have a c/e with a meltdown, they tend to run the book to deadline for the automated part of the process, and the book doesn’t get sent to the writer…and once it gets to a certain stage—it’s on a toboggan. In this instance, it got to galleys, ie, had been typeset, before it got to me. I phoned the editor and explained what happened and she and I had one week, if that, to repair the damage IN the galley file—and get it to the printer. If a book misses its engagement with the printer—it drops out of schedule entirely: as I have heard tell, there are only 4 presses in the whole US, and the schedules are arranged months in advance. There ARE no extra slots to be had.
      Once ANYBODY in the entire book production process misses a deadline, from writer to artist to editor to design to copyeditor to proofer it’s like dominos—the next stage gets crowded. And sometimes to make that all important printer slot—a stage gets dropped.
      And when a book gets out with typos, the writer has to answer all those e-mails from folk who are upset about it.

  2. dlynn

    Bob – I read the article on the Celtic mummies – very interesting. The world was way smaller, way earlier than I thought!

    • bob

      dlynn: A good read on the mummies is by a noted scholar on the subject of ancient textiles …. Elizabeth Barber – “The Mummies of Urumchi”.

      • purplejulian

        wow, I read that book eons ago … fascinating stuff ….

  3. purplejulian

    there’s a kindle edition of Intruder? only in the US, I think – that’s no fair!

    • tulrose

      Well, there’s quite a number of books available for Kindle in the UK & Australia that I can’t get here in the US. Definitely not fair.

    • Hanneke

      Intruder is available in Europe from Kobobooks as an EPUB. It’s got DRM (Adobe Epub) but maybe your Kindle can handle that? I haven’t got a Kindle so I don’t know what kind of DRM they use and if they can read other kinds of DRMed books. Or you could import it to Calibre, if you’ve got the plugins that will let you read it.

      • purplejulian

        well, I succeeded in putting a mobi conversion onto the kindle, but I think doing stuff to CJ’s novel to get it onto kindle might be beyond me! I am buying the hardback, of course! I am sure it will eventually turn up on kindle for the EU, when all the others are available too, and then I will have them all to read at will ….

        • BlueCatShip

          @purplejulian — Check again, Intrude may be out for Kindle in the UK. I wouldn’t think it’d be a problem or big delay. It’s now out from DAW at Amazon in the US and for Barnes & Noble’s Nook too. Luck to you!

          (Huh, caught the tail end of the other discussion, Celtic mummies and textiles. Interesting. Pruney, but interesting. 😉 Say, that tunic is *so* 5th century!)

          • purplejulian

            no, it’s not available on UK Kindle yet ….

  4. dlynn

    CJ – Thanks for an insight into what sounds like a very frenetic process at best. Not fair that the author gets to be the one to answer questions of copyediting. It is the responsibility of the publisher. But of course the author wants to see her baby get the best presentation. FOUR (?) presses in the US!!! Wow.

    • BlueCatShip

      Well, ideally, the editing and copyediting gets right back to the author to read and approve changes. This is so an overzealous editor doesn’t make changes that alter the author’s meaning or style overmuch, and so the editing does not introduce mistakes (typos and misspellings and wrong words) in the process. If the editor is not paying close attention, he or she might make an understandable mistake. Examples: Suppose Capt. Py goes to see the kif. An editor might think it should be Capt. Py goes to see the skiff. Or Cenedi might end up as Canada. (I remember one instance in the first couple of chapters of either Pride of Chanur or Chanur’s Venture, there’s a case where Aja Jin gets spelled Aia Jin once or twice. I will try to catch that next read-through.)

      Editors for science fiction and fantasy need, ideally, to have an eye and ear for those “science fictiony” words and concepts and a good memory for continuity, so they have a feel for what’s going on in the story, the vocabulary, and the writing style. It’s a bit more specialized, I think, than most fiction, and more like poetry or historical fiction.

      The author has a real vested interest in making sure the publisher and editor get it right, both catching any mistakes the author made, and not introducing anything off-key either. Both the author and the editor (and the other pros/craftspeople down the line) have an interest in making sure it’s right, because it affects the author’s and the publisher’s reputations. (And avoids unneeded crowding in the email box: “Hey, you had a typo on page 257.” “Hey, what’s with the illustration on the frontispiece? Spock’s ears are pointed! Hobbits have big hairy feet!” 🙂

  5. bob

    Empty Nest: weasels in the hen-house: Can top that … well, not personally …. but our nearest neighbor in Malaya could. One night on hearing a commotion going on in his chicken hut he went out with a broom thinking a mongoose was in amongst his chickens and took a swipe in the dark with his broom – turn out to be a tiger. I don’t know who was more stunned, him or the tiger – and he ran for his life back into his bungalow … leaving the chickens to their fate. We all went up the next day to see the paw-prints and congratulate him on his escape and commiserate over his now lack of chickens.

    • Sapphire

      Hope no one went after the Tiger. It’s a protected species, severely endangered according to the IUCN, and humans are encroaching ever more into the places where it lives (each cat needs a huge territory). But facing up to one must be terrifying, indeed.

  6. bob

    That Tiger got a pass. But they weren’t protected back then. I had a picture of 4yr old me sitting on the back of one that jumped off the police station roof and ate a couple of policemen. That one got shot!

  7. Sapphire

    Did someone say Dinner?

    Someone somewhere said Boji reminded them of Dinner (Chanur). Now I cannot get that image out of my mind.

    Seriously, though – I’ve just reread Intruder and think it is even more brilliant that I did at first. This is the first book to explore the enigma of Atevi family relations (via Tabini and son), as well as delving into the nature of friendship vs manchi a little (Geigi’s conversation with Bren). I’m sure there will always be mystery about the Atevi (which is to the good because it maintains that ‘sense of wonder’), but delving into the nature of the Atevi always brings more depth to the story.

    What I like so much about these books is the way characters like Tabini and Bren age, learn and progress – they do change, especially Bren. There’s a world of difference between the Bren of today and the naive young man we saw in Foreigner. The sequence – which is really one story – is just so satisfying on so many levels.

    For the first time, also, we see more of Tabini and the way he exists every day in the Bujavid. We even gain and insight into his living quarters, which we never really did before, and see him really laughing for the first time. Ilisidi is magnificent, as usual, and in very good form, as is her ‘prize’, Machigi (what a clever letter he wrote!). I like the way Bren handled Tatiseigi very much.

    I would so much like to own one of those two pottery vases, perhaps at a quarter of the size. I have a few pieces of French and English pale blue to turquoise opaque glass (rather than pottery). Two of the quite heavy English pieces have swans in relief. Even though the Atevi vases are not glass, they would go very well with my objects. The descriptions of objects such as these vases, and also clothing (especially as worn by the Lords at the ceremony), are so incredibly vivid and enticing.

    I hope this post doesn’t contain spoilers – I haven’t actually mentioned specific events, just general impressions.

    I see the next book is finished. Will Todd Lockwood be the cover illustrator again, and might it be published before March 2013?

    • sleo

      I loved it too. Amazingly funny in parts. Lovely, just lovely.

      Does the new book have a title yet? And has anyone figured out who the ‘Intruder’ is yet? I think it’s many levels, much like Betrayer.

      • Sapphire

        To me, it is Machigi who could be regarded as the ‘intruder’.

        So far, every single volume in this sequence has kept up the quality – very unusual, because authors of book series generally cannot keep up the quality and good story lines beyond about three volumes. I do have a preference for one or two volumes in this one, but not by much. They are all brilliant and give me so much pleasure.

        • sleo

          Yes, Machigi, but Boji also was an intruder and he caused a deal of stir! Not to mention the servant that came in uninvited and kept the door open.

          And I agree about the quality. Yes, indeed. 🙂

      • ektus

        >Does the new book have a title yet?

        If I look to the right, the text “New foreigner book” seems to have been replaced by “Protector”. Sounds good 🙂

        • sleo

          Squeeeee! Fangirl loves it! Looks like Protector is it!

  8. Rigeldeneb

    I nominate Komaji, Lord Ajuri as a candidate for the Intruder.

    And, as usual, Bren–who is supposed to be neutral in politics and is always intruding or being intruded into atevi politics.

    I have always found Damiri interesting and was glad to see more of her. Atevi parent-child relations are explored a bit in Intruder–but there are still some mysteries! For example, why does the sex of the unborn child matter and in what sense? What does the father-daughter relationship of Banichi and Jago have to do, if anything, with their partnership as Assassins? Does the Guild relationship, and the man’chi involved, transcend or supersede their blood relationship?

    At any rate, I am not sure how much we readers can infer about general atevi parent-child relationships by watching Tabini, Damiri and Cajeiri! Aiji are different from regular atevi, and Tabini and Cajeiri are in a class by themselves even among atevi rulers.

    Siodi-daja, Machigi’s representative, seems an interesting person.

    • Sapphire

      Yes, the Ajuri were my second choice for candidate of intruder. However, for me Machigi is the central theme running through the book, whereas the Ajuri play a comparatively minor role here.

      Talking of Komaji and without giving the game away, that exchange between Ilisidi and Komaji, and the way she despatched him, was so well done – and funny. 🙂

  9. Sapphire

    Hmm, Protector, eh?

    Bren protecting Tabini, his son and/or Machigi?

    The heir protecting Boji (or vice versa!). 🙂

    Excellent title.

    • tulrose

      Or Cajeiri protecting the new sib or his associates?

  10. dlynn

    Or maybe Protector is the new Atevi starship. Where are those Kyo?

    • sleo

      Good question! And it has to have something to do with Machigi!

  11. jcsalomon

    I’m going to echo what others have said about Intruder: the glimpse we got of parenting in a species with man’chi in the place of love was a nice bonus in this book. I’m also calling Chekhov’s Gun on Bren’s thoughts about the downward complement of man’chi.

    • J. C. Salomon

      Having just read Peacemaker I can (without any spoilers) brag that I called this one. It’s a quick one-liner, but it’s there—and wow, does this have implications for the way human gestures of friendship will be misinterpreted.

  12. Rigeldeneb

    I agree, Sapphire, the dowager is a pistol.

    In addition to wondering about the Kyo, I’m wondering when the Captains and the Mospheirans will turn up in the mix.

  13. Isharell

    I believe the Intruder is many faceted… but one has been overlooked: the intruder Cajeiri is angsting about in the first half of the book is the new baby.

  14. Sapphire

    Just passing through and notice that 2 per cent of the next book (Peacemaker) is completed! Now I wonder what that’s going to be about…

    Oh, and by the way, I’ve got it figured out – in Protector, it’s going to be Bren ‘protecting’ his aishid – again. 🙂

    Really excited about the upcoming two (and more?) books. Hope it’s not going to be a year before we see Protector.

  15. northwestsmith

    Cajieri.

    With a pet monkey.

    One might as well File Intent on the porcelains, and have done with it.

  16. Sgt Saturn

    Speaking of covers: The covers of the early books pictured the Atevi as massive, very dark, and with subtly non-human features. On more recent books they begin to look like black humans with yellow contacts and ‘Spock ears’. Whatever we may think of these changes, they would certainly make it easier to produce a Foreigner movie of Game of Thrones-like TV series.

    CJ, I imagine that if there were anything you could tell us about, you would have already. There is nothing in negotiation, or for some reason the negotiations secret. Still, it is fun to dream of who one might cast in the various roles. 🙂

  17. dlynn

    It is fun to imagine who would be cast. Not too long ago I saw an older black lady at the grocery store that would have been great as Sidi-ji. There was something about her looks and bearing that made her a natural although I guess she needed to be about a foot taller. But then those cameras can work magic can they not?

  18. CJ

    Alas, no, not for that one. I get people optioning this and that from time to time, but no Foreigner series —and I really think the only way you could do it well would be as a series.

  19. Rigeldeneb

    Northwestsmith,your observation made me laugh aloud.

    Foreigner as a series. . . it would take as many movies as the Harry Potter series, if not more. The screenplay would want to skimp on Bren’s growth from a naive very young man he was in Foreigner to the force of nature he currently is. Going by the current trends, the screenplay would devote screen time to the Assassins Guild in action. I thoroughly enjoy Assassins Guild actions–the take over of Reunion is one of my very favorite chapters in the whole series–but I’d hate for the politics and cross-cultural-cross-species currents to be sacrificed to CGI mania.

    What I would like to see is a well-done version of Bren’s first face-to-face with the captains as presented in Precursor. The Pilot’s Guild sure enough met its match. It would also be fun to see what imaginative people would do with sets and costuming. I’m dying to see the inside of the Atageini residence in the Bujavid, with Madame Saidin doing the tour.

  20. Rigeldeneb

    More thoughts. . .Foreigner as a cable tv series? With a run as long as MASH and writers as good? Equally interested in the characters and psychology as in the futuristic scenery and the shoot-’em-ups?

    People saying, “I grew up on the Foreigner series!”

    Cool.

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