I’m giving the page a second section because page 1 was starting to behave oddly.
As always, wait at least 30 days from issue of the book before starting to discuss. And give our overseas friends some extra leeway: the distribution system doesn’t reach everywhere as fast!
To all my fellow fans here: I stumbled upon some Foreigner fan fiction on another website. How do you all feel about fanfiction? Have you ever written any? It’s confession time!
And I suppose that begs a follow-up question: How does our favorite author view fanfiction? Is it a malignant tumor or is it flattery (of a widely-diverse quality)?
*listens to the crickets chirp* *blush* Why do I feel like I just stuck a fourth flower into Bren’s foyer arrangement? 😉 lol!
LOL. I have only read fan fiction for one TV show that I was a real fangirl about. I’ve never felt the need of it for books. The story feels quite complete and satisfying in C.J.’s hands.
Most authors don’t like it. I don’t recall if CJ has ever expressed feelings about it, but I know other authors who hate it.
Officially I try not to notice. 🙂 Sorry about the crickets. They’re tame. 😉
The reason I don’t notice is that I have such a garbage brain, and if I ever read something dealing with my people I’d be inhibited from doing what I need to do, as in —Did I think of that? Or did that other person?
Fan fiction varies with the talents and preferences of the writer. I have read some in the Farscape universe that was publication quality, and a few Farscape fan authors have gone on to publish original works, science fiction, historical, romance, or other fiction.
But authors themselves usually have to not notice it, in order to avoid either influence or else fluctuations in blood pressure. 😉
I have a handful of story ideas in a few fandoms, but so far, nothing completed.
I think fan fiction is either fun practice writing, or a stepping stone to further writing. It is potentially a way to try to get a story sold to a TV series or shared world book series. However, for those, you need to submit through an agent to have a shot at it.
Nothing’s wrong with writing for fun, practice, and love of something, to share with others. But it does need to be mindful of, respectful of, the originals and official content.
Just my opinion, though.
I’ve occasionally been tempted to commit fan fiction, but generally the ideas stay in my head, which is probably just as well. Generally I don’t read fan fiction, though I might make an exception if someone recommended a particular piece to me. I consider fan fiction in general “mostly harmless.” 😉
Regarding the draft of the next book cover and the role that children are likely to play in the plot… I like the recent segments from Cajeiri’s point of view, particularly as Bren is now too atevi-like to give us a good “foreigner” viewpoint. Viewing the same sets of events from both points of view gives a nice perspective. The balance in the last 4 books seems good to me. I would suppose this next book will be similar in balance. I’m very much looking forward to it. 🙂
I agree, nekokami about the balance in the book between Bren and Cajieri. I particularly liked the last one – Intruder. Cajieri and his pet were wonderful. And I also loved the intimate glimpse of the family. One could almost assume there is ‘love’ between Damiri and Tabini. All in all it was a very satisfying book. Wish April 2013 wasn’t so far off.
So I’ve scanned the comments in various sections before asking, but I haven’t found mention of it thus far: is there another Foreigner arc planned after the one ending with Peacemaker?
Hi anyone who might stop to read this. I doubt I’m going to read all the past posts and comments here, though many seem quite interesting. Is there any way to search for keywords within all this content? I want to know if others have already said what I am about to say – I am pretty sure they have as I am quite late in the publishing timeline to reach these conclusions.
I recently discovered that I had not been paying attention and that 7 (!) more Foreigner books had been published since I had last read one. So I gobbled down 3, went back to the beginning and reread them all, then finished the trilogy before felicitous 5. I got so worked up about the story lines that I was dreaming about it at times. I woke up one morning wondering if Tabini would kill Cajeiri to prevent Ilisidi moving to eradicate T and set up C over the aishidi’tat with her as regent. That was while reading the trilogy before 5. I do not think it would be healthy for me begin the 5th trilogy until they are all available: I would go frantic with worry and curiosity.
By the 5th trilogy, Ilisidi will hold the associations of the East, West and South, with the Ragi Atageini from the Center, plus control of Cajeiri. What is to stop her from deposing the Ragi dominance of society? I suppose the Ragi have the population numbers, and probably economic dominance, but the primary resources supplying that economic engine come from the non-Ragi territories. The best guesses I have as to why Ilisidi might not depose Tabini are that Tabini makes a pleasant wall to duck behind when there is incoming political fire, it appears he has that indefinable aiji “it” factor in spades, and in general Ilisidi does not favor civil war (no one likes to lose power, and the Ragi would feel threatened and likely respond with violence). But her hunger for victory, to be the most “aiji-ist”, was almost out of control in Betrayer. (Please don’t respond with any spoilers from Intruder – I have not read it yet.)
On a different line, in rereading the entire set, I realized that there is a “coming out” story subtext throughout in Bren and Jago’s relationship. It amazes me that I didn’t catch this the first time through, but then coming out was not something I was doing at that time.
I also realized that Bren among humans (of modern US society at least) would be considered very unmacho. He is comfortable being physically weaker and smaller than his employers and his lover, with a higher voice, often being seen as childlike by new people he meets and not taken seriously, not to mention being afraid of his own scents being offensive to his associates, and going for the frilly clothes. Those are stereotypical human female traits in modern western society. The one advantage he has to compensate for all these weaknesses is his emotional perception, to read the intent of those around him, which ironically also tends to be stronger in human women. Perhaps he would be homosexual in Moshperia, but deeply closeted. It would explain a lot of his family dynamic and his preference for attachment to a different species.
While ‘Sidi-ma does have a pretty extensive power base, there is a hurdle that she cannot clear: the voting in the tashrid and the hasdrawd, without which she could not become aiji. Also remember that ominous line in reference to the Guild, “It is not only the hasdrawd and tashrid that cast votes…”
She is also past her best years, and quite possibly no longer wants the post. Besides, why bother, when she can establish her long-desired reforms much more effectively where she is, outside the aijinate? She will, however, present Cajeiri with a wonderful inheritance. One thinks he could even now take proper control of it all — or at least, Malguri — on very short notice, in the infelicitous event of her demise, something most fervently hoped to be avoided! Given his age, there would probably be some sort of regency council requirement. (Grimaces at the thought of Ajuri forcing their way onto that group!)
If, even with that base, Cajeiri is not electable, he will become a solid counterbalance for whoever does succeed Tabini (read: major pain in the ass. Call it the Malguri Tradition!).
Actually I think we all are given to very sloppy clothing compared to our predecessors of the 1700’s through early 1800’s. Men were the peacocks…if they had the wherewithal to afford the game. Highheeled shoes, fans, etc. In general I think the male of the human species has a far stronger instinct toward display in clothing than women do—the amount of fuss over whether a collar has two or three buttons was mind-boggling, back in the day; but apparently, while women were completely oblivious to this detail of elegance, men could spot it across a crowded room. And goodness knows you saw it in the ’70’s with the flower children—but they hadn’t the funds to indulge. I wouldn’t be surprised to see another age of extravagance down the pike: in fact it may be the rebound from this one, which couldn’t possibly get any sloppier—says she, who goes about in sweatshirts. Bren IS to a certain extent the ‘perpetual student’…that is certainly true.
Welcome! Hope you enjoy!
@Scroobious: Welcome, as a fellow late-comer to this forum myself, you’re probably standing next to me on this boat! 🙂
I’ve given lots of thought to the Ilisidi questions you posed – often at long traffic lights, earning the ire and irritation of those illiterate drivers behind me – and I have reached, at long last, a semi-satisfying conclusion: The Kyo. Ilisidi got as good a read on this ultimate Foreigner race as any Ateva could ask for; she understands what is at stake and that her planet must appear well-ordered and respectable for the impending arrival of their space neighbors. Until that moment, her motives were as you suspect (I think) but after that voyage the paradigm shifts.
My worry about Sidi-ji is quite the opposite. Sad as it is to contemplate, Ilisidi will not be with us forever. If the West is not willing to behave after her lands transfer to her heir, what then?
As for Bren, to me, he is BEYOND macho! Only a man who is completely sure of himself (and his sexuality) could step into the Atevi mindset so completely without losing himself in the process. And the Mospherians know the score; the precise look Bren achieves, (with the help of his staff) oozes power. It says – “yes, I have dozens of people making certain this coat is tailored to my exact form, the lace is perfectly crisp without being overdone, the hair and ribbons are perfect, the cufflinks arranged at the correct angles and there is not a single wrinkle anywhere.” Imagine it. Have you ever been in a room with someone, say, from the military who is in full dress uniform? It can be intimidating. It separates the men from the boys, so to speak. A lord who can’t command a staff to keep him, for example, perfectly kaibu … on a spaceship that just launched and now there is a completely unexpected formal dinner that must be attended … is NOT a true player in the Atevi world. (Remember how frantic Bren’s staff was? begging him to allow them to prepare the more difficult items of clothing? And they pulled it off – Ilisidi threw down that challenge, Bren met it …and the female captain (forgot her name) learned a valuable lesson….eventually.)
The fact that Bren, who in human terms is a tall (6’2″), able-bodied man (skiing, hiking, hell of a marksman, etc, remember?) takes that hit to his psyche (being seen as smaller, weaker, etc) and takes it in stride (well, he learns to, anyway) makes him all the more a manly hero: the true measure of a man is what he does for his country, er…race, right? His bravery. His intellect. He is a paragon of what is best about humanity, and of all the paidhi, actually, when he strides into Machigi’s place and STARES HIM DOWN …*shiver* (I think that, when all is said and done, that moment might be the climax of the entire series …)
Let’s have tea and talk some more! 🙂 I promise, the tea is safe! 🙂
I agree that Bren isn’t very “macho,” but I also think that’s a particular interpretation of male identity that isn’t universal across human cultures and history, let alone relevant with atevi. Suggesting that Bren might have been a closeted homosexual on Mospheira, I think, oversimplifies his identity issues. It’s not that he doesn’t think of himself as male, or that he’s not attracted to women… it’s more that he doesn’t think of himself as human, and he’s not attracted to other humans.
That said, I do often wonder about atevi gender and sexuality norms. Banichi at least contemplates the idea that Bren might be attracted to him (though with apparent discomfort), but I suppose if one is considering that a foreign human might be attracted to a member of one’s own species, perhaps gender is the less significant barrier. I wondered, for a while, if Tano and Algini were lovers, but I’ve heard that this has been officially denied. Atevi sexual relationships do seem to be quite private, however. Contract marriages seem to be primarily for the purpose of having children or for political alliance, and permanent marriages are extremely rare. We don’t know so much about liaisons outside of marriage– Damiri’s relationship with Tabini seems to have been a somewhat open secret, and Illisidi’s probable affair with Tatiseigi is evidently slightly scandalous. We know that physical attraction does exist. Perhaps the rule is that if a relationship is not meant to entail an alliance, it is not discussed, ever?
We also have a somewhat inconsistent sense of gender identity or restrictions in Ragi culture– there are female aijiin, e.g. Direiso, but all the major aijiin of the aishidi’tat seem to have been male. Illisidi’s gender does not appear to have been a factor in the Hasdrawad’s refusal to elect her to the aijinate (though her Eastern origin might have been a factor). The Edi and Gan are considered somewhat heretical in their emphasis on matrilinial authority. There are female Guild, but most of those we meet seem to be “undercover,” compared to uniformed Guild. Cajeiri seems to feel that the gender of his younger sibling-to-be is highly significant. But Machigi’s female trade representative raises no eyebrows, and half of his cabinet seem to be female. I’m inclined to think the slight preponderance of males in positions of authority is partially a side-effect of the main character being male (males usually seem to have male staff, and vice versa, other than Illisidi), and partly just random chance, but I do wonder to what extent gender identity plays a part in atevi psychology.
Wow, so many lengthy responses! *looks shy and happy*
@CJ: Thanks for the welcome. I did not think of historical human fashions. Perhaps the lordly fashions of the Atevi, being so restrictive, serve to contain the wilder impulses that make it hard for aggressive people to be in the same room. I suppose as space culture captures Atevi imagination, the young on the planet might take to sporting the station’s practical garb, and maybe they would also tend to lose their self control more often resulting in bad habits like brawling and defying authority figures. That would be as serious a repercussion as the cell phone conundrum, and as hard or harder to control. Thank goodness it is fiction and you have total control! You can have the aiji ensure that school uniforms are required, and that informal dress is not tolerated among the lords and leaders.
@Limari: Also thanks for the welcome. I, too, worry about losing one of the characters to death, either to old age or lead poisoning. I keep thinking, “One of these days, she’s going to make us all go through it because it moves the story forward, and I am going to hate it.” Ack!
What you describe as Bren’s macho qualities equally apply to current examples like Madeline Albright and Hillary Clinton. But I disagree about Bren not losing himself. Bren is frequently on the edge of losing himself. He has gone native, and has to actively remind himself he is not native.
@nekokami: Ilisidi’s probable affairs with many lords! The one with Tateseigi seems to be scandalous only because it started when she was in a marriage contract and has become somewhat public. Maybe our curiosity about Atevi private life is more a study of human prurience than of Atevi reticence. At least Atevi appear to have equal opportunity for jobs and child-rearing based on skills and preferences, not pre-determined by gender.
Regarding clothing styles… they are really just as fussy today as they have ever been. It takes a lot of work to create that sloppy look. Care goes into choosing each item, and the smallest details have meanings invisible to anyone outside the target audience (as anyone who’s taken a teen shopping for shoes can attest). Take a look at the clothes with pre-made holes and other signs of wear on the racks at the stores– and compare the prices to a similar item without the “distressed” look. Baggy pants and faded t-shirts may not advertise a large support staff, but they do advertise the cultural identity and savvy of those who wear them, as well as their ability to pay a premium for the right styles and brands.
Even those of us who choose to “dress down” are making statements with our clothing, often very deliberate. Take a look at the difference between how the IT techies dress compared to sales staff. As a friend of mine put it, “When you call tech support, you kind of want to see them show up in their jeans and Green Lantern t-shirt.” A button-down shirt and tie doesn’t inspire the same nerdy confidence. 😉
Regarding Ilisidi’s affairs… they are scandalous because she chooses to make them so, quite deliberately. Tatiseigi going along with the scandal is evidence that his man’chi is to Ilisidi. 😉
I am still thinking about gender identity among atevi, though. It’s not much of a spoiler, I hope, to mention that in [i]Intruder[/i], when Machigi protests that his fisherfolk are not going to want to send their sons to school, Bren points out that they might send their daughters instead. Is a son more likely to follow in the family trade than a daughter?
In an earlier book, Bren notes that the atevi ladies in the Atageini apartment wear matching slippers and coats of silk brocade indoors. Bren wears “indoor boots,” trousers and shirt, and a coat (which seems to get changed frequently depending on the formality of the occasion). What does Ilisidi wear on her feet, I wonder? Boots for riding, I’m sure. But indoors? What does Damiri wear? We’ve seen that she wears dresses of some kind a fair amount of the time. She also seems to be a bit more “courtly” than Ilisidi. I’m guessing she wears slippers/shoes most of the time. How about Tatiseigi? He’s not much of an outdoorsman, as far as we’ve seen. Does he wear boots indoors? Or some kind of shoes? I had the impression early on that there were no gender distinctions in clothing, but that doesn’t seem to have been borne out as the series progresses, so now I’m wondering. Formal clothing often echoes an earlier time. Was there a female atevi equality movement at some point? (I could just see Ilisidi leading the charge… not so much because she wanted to expand the rights of other atevi women, but because she would refuse to be bound by conventions she considered pointless and inconvenient.)
Are there any concept sketches of any of the buildings from the atevi world? E.g. the Bu’Javid, other buildings in Shejidan, the fortress of Malguri, Tirnamardi, etc.? If not, are there any referents for the general style of Ragi or other atevi buildings, e.g. “Mediterranean with a bit of Eastern Europe”? I know the red tile roofs are very common, especially in Shejidan, so that’s where I’m getting the “Mediterranean” idea from (I’m thinking of Óbidos, for example), but I wouldn’t expect the building style to look too close to any human architecture. And I would suppose there are different visual styles in different regions, as well.
I do some 3D modeling and imaging, and I’d like to put together some images of some of the locations in the atevi world, so a few references would be very helpful.
So, no existing sketches, then? I’ve been thinking about this, and I wonder if Atevi tend to avoid right angles, given their lack of fondness for twos? There is also the custom of organizing around associations, with overlap between associations common. So on the one hand I thought about the street layouts of medieval Arabic cities (and houses, e.g. http://citi.aui.ma/shss/Said_ennahid/Access_Regulation_in_Islamic_Urbanism2_Ennahid.pdf) and on the other hand I thought about radial symmetries based on odd numbers, rather than the orthogonal or even hexagonal organizations we are familiar with. This led me to thinking about Penrose tiles and aperiodic tiling patterns with five-fold or seven-fold symmetry (see http://plus.maths.org/content/os/issue45/features/kaplan/index and http://tilings.math.uni-bielefeld.de for a catalog of more examples). These two ideas actually go together well historically (http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/8270/title/Math_Trek__Ancient_Islamic_Penrose_Tiles). There are interesting possibilities for fractal-like organizations of nested associations here.
On the other hand, Bren gives directions in terms of North, South, East, West, and when combined with a Center, this creates a group of five and matches the idea of the aishidi (Principal plus four aishid members). This organizational system also matches well with Feng Shui and other East Asian systems.
So… do atevi tend toward square buildings and street layouts, or non-orthogonal patterns? Is it dependent on the atevi culture in question, e.g. Ragi, Marid, Eastern, Edi?
I don’t write fan fiction, but instead of counting sheep, I wonder about the lives of the minor characters in the books. As I wrote in an earlier post,I particularly enjoy contemplating how Bren is perceived by other humans, Mos’pheiran and ship folk. We get some clues: the ship captains found him exasperating, because they couldn’t push him, and through him the folks of the atevi world, around. Braddock and too many Mospheirans call him a traitor to the human race (such narrow-minded and unimaginative pea-brains).
Phoenix ship crew trusts him, and I suspect hero-worship him a bit. Shawn trusts and respects him, but it must be rather weird for Shawn to have watched Bren’s evolution from a studious and naive young paid’hi to this world mover and shaker who is no longer quite human. It’s not just the role and the clothes. Bren’s body language and responses are different, and I wouldn’t be surprised if his Mos’phei has something of an atevi accent.
Banichi was never worried that Bren was attracted to him in a sexual way, though, if I remember correctly, that interpretation was mentioned while Banichi was attempting to understand what Bren was trying to convey of his feelings. The trouble is with that word “friend,” which is an everlasting source of confusion between the two species. Atevi don’t have the word or the concept. And when Bren uses the atevi word for “like,” it translates into the kind of “like” we reserve for food–hence the in joke about salads. (And wasn’t that a funny scene in Explorer when Sabin attempts to express approval of the successful taking of the station? She uses the atevi word for “good,” but that, too, was a word that refers to food. Essentially she tells Banichi, “Delicious.” I love those little touches.)
Banichi was troubled by the notion that Bren was expressing man’chi toward him, which in Banichi’s culture is so inappropriate as to be crazy behavior. Bren wants to protect Banichi and Jago, and Tano and Algini, too; he has had to learn that he must stifle his instinct to throw himself in front of them (like Jase tried to protect Tatiseigi in Inheritor) because it runs so counter to their instinct of man’chi, which is for them to protect and serve him. His instinct interferes with his ai’shid’s performance. For his ai’shid, Bren’s desire to protect them is as peculiar as running out on an expressway and trying to stop cars with a newspaper–too too upsetting and not the way sane, decent, and orderly people behave.
So there is Bren with his “like” and “love” and “loyalty”, which are sort of like man’chi, but not really; and Banichi and Jago conceding that if a situation gets really heated, and someone in the ai’shid is threatened or injured, Bren might act nutty–because that’s what humans, apparently, do.
Im reading Foreigner as more a psychological study. Bren has a lot of issues. He has a difficult and stressful job where no one understands him and he cant understand anyone else either. All his rational thinking is of no use. imagine not being able to make sense of anyone around you all day? If he was here on earth, he would need a Doctor. “Doctor, Im having serious problems. I cant reason with anyone around me. Is it just me, or do you think everyone is out to get me? Do you think I need some help?”. Im sure a medical specialist on this forum can diagnose his symptoms!
Bren — Here we have a man whose job entails language translation, diplomacy, and alien psychology, in a sense. He has trouble dealing with or identifying with humans, but when you consider the major humans in his life (Hanks, Barb, politicos) maybe that explains why. If they were most other humans, maybe he’d have an easier time relating. Or maybe not. People are strange. I’ll admit there are times my fellow human beings make less sense to me.
Bren likes, is fascinated by, language. He’s equally fascinated, drawn to, the atevi, the ultimate exotic (foreign) language problem, too, in his world, a whole culture fundamentally not human, there to explore. Oh, I get his interest. Er, and I have (uncomfortably) noticed a few personal similarities with Bren.
However, Bren isn’t gay or closeted. He likes women. Uh, the real difficulties of an attraction to an *alien* (male or female) and/or their attraction to him, would maybe apply to the “closeted” theme. More likely, IMHO, is that his overall love for all things atevi, and his difficult edge on the fence position between humans and atevi, are the source of that “closeted” sense. I don’t quite find a closeted sense there, but I could see how another reader might.
Bren has a real dilemma, which he even states early on. Here he is, as a human, trying to understand the thinking and the feelings of atevi. But being human, he can only guess. Likewise, atevi can only guess what humans like Bren think and feel. At times, the unlikeliness or impossibility of it gets to him. And the very turn of mind that makes him good at fathoming atevi gives him trouble in understanding or identifying with his own kind, especially without constant human contact.
I think he’s too hard on himself. Look how often he’s upset because he didn’t get everything perfect. Never mind he couldn’t possibly be expected to. His atevi associates grow to understand this. Banichi is baffled that Bren risks his life for Banichi in Foreigner, and it makes a difference in how Banichi sees Bren. Ilisidi finds she can’t break or intimidate Bren, and further that he enjoys her talks. She finds he’s honest, insofar as she can tell, and she finds he’s interesting, a challenge. Several atevi find Bren a…felicitous, intriguing associate. They wouldn’t want to miss him. Man’chi, associate, salad, whatever an ate a would ascribe to the feeling, Bren has associates who value him, even among aijiin.
Yet Bren still worries over getting things right.
I see his nervousness over being threatened, having to deal with someone or some group willing to kill or harm him, his associates/friends/family, and what he stands for — as a lot more reasonably believable than some guy who supposedly is not bothered, is unafraid. Bren gets angry and wants to fight back. But it isn’t his natural state, his first assumption, that anyone civilized or sane should want to kill him for who he is. He isn’t by nature, primarily a fighter or killer. He’s a thinker, a live and let live kind of guy. Heck, he likes atevi. To have atevi who want to kill him for it, is a real disconnect for him.
I get that. I have ny share of human weaknesses and passions (and strengths, I hope) but, well, it’s not quite in my nature to want violence without an almighty lot of provocation.
Many of CJC’s heroes come across, IMHO, as more believable because they don’t immediately want to go in with weapons blazing, and because the idea of doing so makes them uneasy. Not that they would never fight back or wouldn’t get angry. They’re often plenty capable of both. But that it is not something they leap to immediately or happily.
Those sorts of things in Bren don’t strike me as less macho or as mor effeminate. To me, they make Bren more believable as a person, and as the type of person who’d be a translator-diplomat, representative to an alien species.
Er, and as I said, I recognize myself in Bren at times. Sometimes, that’s flattering, sometimes not. But it sure is food for thought. And I find him more believable than the hero who shoots first and asks questions later, as true to life as those kinds are.
Not meant as an attack of others’ opinions, just how I see Bren.
Tea is welcome, giving or receiving.
Lol, atevi clothing sense may be different, a little fussy, but then, a suit and tie, or the usual preppie look, or jeans and a tee, being well dressed, is important…in public. At home, I dress down. I’d adjust if I lived somewhere (or when) else.
Note: Um, unlike Bren, I prefer the male of the species. But most of the world works differently. To each his/her own.
Quite honestly, I never gave Bren’s masculinity or femininity a thought, not during all the years of reading and re-reading this series. He simply was a representative of the best of humanness: inquisitive, creative, responsive, courageous, humorous, loving, persistent, competent at what he does (a characteristic I greatly admire), perfectionist (which has its shadow side), capable of change, risk and adaptation.Above all, Bren is depicted as a highly intelligent life form of great integrity. The Foreigner series is not a story through which I work out issues of masculinity and femininity, nor assign various examples of human behavior to familiar cultural categories of male and female. It’s one of the tales in which I work out how to define a quality human being and a quality human life.
There is, I perceive, a certain naivete in this approach. The gender of the characters makes a difference in the way I respond to them, I am sure. I cannot, for example, imagine Tabini as female. On the other hand, I also cannot imagine him as human, either, as I can Banichi and Ilisidi.
Tabini is, for me, the most mysterious and intriguing of the characters in this long, long tale, perhaps the most mysterious and intriguing of C.J.’s many unusual characters. In this category I include Raen the Methmaren of Serpent’s Reach, Aiela (who is not human) of Hunter of Worlds and Sbi of Wave Without a Shore (also not human). I do not include Thorn of Cuckoo’s Egg because his humanity is so very evident despite being raised as a member of a non-human species–and that is the “strangeness” of that tale. Bren, Raen, Aiela, and Sbi all have this conviction of the a priori value of all Intelligent Life Forms. (Perhaps I should include the knn who dropped the human ship among the oxygen breathers and took away the peace-disturbing kif in Pride of Chanur?) This conviction goes beyond gender roles. It is not a quality I mark as feminine–you know, Caring, Sensitive and Relational? When Bren starts threatening to File Intent, I just never interpreted this action as typical human male response to a problem: shoot it or blow it up; I saw it as Bren becoming more like an ateva. When he seeks relationship, I just never interpreted this behavior as “his feminine side coming out.” It was Bren doing what Bren, a lonely human being in extraordinary circumstances, humanly does.
BlueCatShip, I so agree with you about the atevi responses to Bren, and Tabini seems to have, at least earlier in the series, enjoyed Bren’s company; and he certainly relies on Bren’s man’chi now. He also, clearly, sees Bren as a tool. Bren accepts the role of tool because he believes it is essential to the maintenance of peace and prosperity as well as the path away from mutual species annihilation. Also he believes in Tabini–he has attached to Tabini in a way I think would be disturbing if Tabini were human with human responses–but that is another train of thought (made even more intriguing by the notion that a paidhi becomes reflective of his aji).
Tabini appears to have that special vision that allows one to see beyond the limitations of species, and this ability serves an individual and its species well in all of C.J.’s universes.
Here is the irony for me. In this series, the atevi, with the exception of Tabini, become more and more knowable and less and less alien. The humans become less knowable and more alien. (For example, how is it that the politics of humanity have changed so little in all these centuries? Why have not the deeps of space and the encounter with the unknown changed them? Humanity, IMO, comes across as embarrassingly provincial and rather stupid–“damn, dumb shits.”)
Tabini makes me uneasy. We see him only through Bren’s eyes, and because I trust Bren I am willing to think of Tabini as an enlightened ruler and a quality intelligence. But if he were human, he’d be one scary Machiavellian tyrant.
I like it that he continues to be the Inscrutable Other (hmmm,well, yes, that can be a bit of a stereotype) and a foil for Bren’s humanity.
I agree about Tabini. Part of what I like about Machigi is that he is also fairly hard to puzzle out or predict. 🙂 Ilisidi is still capable of surprising me, though. I think her reasoning in sending Bren to Tanaja is still very specifically atevi. Geigi, on the other hand, is delightful in his attempts to reach across the boundaries from the other side. In Foreigner, Bren asks Banichi and Jago to meet him halfway as he struggles to relate to immersion in atevi culture. Jago eventually develops a relationship with Bren that satisfies them both in different ways. But Geigi is actually the first ateva to make the attempt to think like a human or use human words.
I think Sbi is a special case in terms of alien character– the humans of Kierkegaard have become fairly alien in their thinking, and I’m not convinced it was because of the prior inhabitants of the planet. (The name they’ve chosen for the world is something of a clue.) In a way, Sbi is more human than most of the actual human inhabitants, and I think this is purposeful. The humans need a reminder about their better nature.
@Rigeldneb – You’ve hit on something there. I’ve noticed that as the atevi become more knowable and the humans more alien that I’m increasingly comfortable with that paradigm. In fact, it feels like I’ve come home. This thread that runs through so many of CJ’s stories- that humans can be such “damn, dumb shits” – it is so true, and for me, I’d rather go live with the aliens. Personally, I’ve always felt like a stranger in a strange land, here on this earth.
Nothing new there, though. I suspect it is probably a unifying theme of science-fiction/fantasy fandom. 🙂
@Nekokami – Geigi continues to surprise and delight, doesn’t he? From that first encounter, when Bren helps him to receive aid from Ilisidi up to that last, delightful conversation where he is asking about the meaning of human love and friendship. I have to say, I wanted more, more more out of that scene! An entire chapter, (please!) just of Bren and Geigi trying to bridge these gaps would be a true gift! I can imagine a day in the near future for Bren that he may misunderstand Geigi on some point because Geigi is reaching so far to be understood by humans that Bren, in Atevi mode, misses it!!! 🙂
@Nekokami–I agree: Sbi reminds the humans of Kierkegaard of their better human nature, a nice irony and reversal–that a non-human has to remind the humans how to be better humans. In a larger sense, though, Sbi reminds them how to be Compassionate Intelligences, how to value difference. Whatever the species, the members who learn to value difference help their species to thrive.
The challenge of the Kyo is going to be: how will they value difference?
The Mri seem to be an exception to this rule, until you realize that they, too, have learned, by the end of their saga, to value difference, enough to absorb Duncan and the dusei into their culture, but, more tellingly, to regard Boaz, the human scientist, as sen’e’en (sage in the Mri culture) and to include her name and the name of the human soldier Galey, who died fighting for Mri survival, in their precious annals, the Pana.
@Limari, your comments and yours, Nekokami, about Geigi got me to thinking once again about the opener of Foreigner. How strange humanity is to the atevi. We were the aliens drifting down out of space, mysterious invaders; we were the pale little creatures emerging (more or less) from the mother ship to change the world. How often do we get to see ourselves so?
And in one of those sideways leaps. . .I started thinking about Toby. The relationship between Bren and Toby was strained by Bren’s job and by their rather neurotic mother. (Another leap: perhaps we can judge her less harshly if we remember the losses in her life. The woman had heart trouble, both physically and spiritually, and one can exacerbate the other. Apparently she never got over the separation from her husband [will we ever get a glimpse of him?], and now her older son is in a career that leaves him constantly out of touch and often in deadly danger. It’s enough to drive a mother mad. Yes, she was over-possessive. But she was not evil or cruel.)
Anyway, their mother’s death releases both brothers. And what does Toby choose to do with his freedom? He chooses to back his brother. He chooses a way of life that allows him to support what his brother does, to quite literally sail to his brother’s rescue. Yeah, Barb is in it with him, a thorn in Bren’s side, but Toby puts himself out for brother Bren. The bond between these brothers is strong.
In the last chapter of Inheritor, we read that “Geigi especially favored Toby: a fine sailor. . .” As early as that, Geigi has indicated his openness to exploring the interface from the atevi side. Up on the station, he is, like Bren, going native. . .
I am curious about atevi crime. Are there atevi criminals? Is there a non-Guild civilian “police force”? I can see where man’chi could prevent such anti-social behavior as petty theft, vandalism, mugging, drunk & disorderly and the like, but I can also see an atevi with the aiji trait organizing a very effective Mafia. Especially if they have seen any human gangster vids. How do common atevi, who don’t have access to Guild resources deal with offenses? Is it like human feudalism, where they go to their lord and ask for justice? Can anyone File Intent? Does the Guild charge for its services?