I’m giving the page a second section because page 1 was starting to behave oddly.
As always, wait at least 30 days from issue of the book before starting to discuss. And give our overseas friends some extra leeway: the distribution system doesn’t reach everywhere as fast!
Part of the pleasure of the story is trying to imagine the scenery. Well, Bren and cohorts have spent quite a bit of time, in the past three or four volumes, driving, riding and scrambling around the countryside, for various reasons, during a number of seasons. It’s a big continent, apparently.
What about Mospheira? Anybody have a Terran counterpart for Mospheira? So far we’ve been given views of ski resorts (Bren’s favorite recreation and personal metaphor), beachfront towns (Toby, Jill, the kids and the boat before the marriage blew up ), and hot nightlife (Barb and Bren on the town). Monte Carlo anyone?
Have to say, Rigeldeneb, that I’m not particularly interested in Mospheira – more in the ‘alien’ environments (probably in the way that I’m much more interested in the Atevi than any of the Mospheirans apart from the ones who have gone into space, and Bren of course).
Another location I’ve thought of for Malguri is the Crusader castle of Krak des Chevaliers, though it wouldn’t be right when it came to the surrounding countryside or climate, or to the interiors, which are as I think you pointed out quite Scottish in feel.
Some high parts of Wales might do for the surrounding countryside – they are very bleak and snowy in winter. The lake, though, I see almost as a vast inland sea, bigger than any loch in Scotland (or any other inland water body I can think of). I generally visualize it from very high up.
Malguri as described so vividly in Foreigner is probably my favourite location. I also like the interiors in many places, with all the beautiful porcelains and textiles, and the space station and ship, which are so clearly portrayed, like some of the space environments in the Alliance-Union books.
Well we know Mospheira has mountains and beaches. And cities with high rises and glass.
I find that I am unable to discount the Mospheirans. They are part of the equation and we don’t know whether or not CJ will keep them backgrounded. When the Kyo come, Mospheira will be part of the negotiations.
I think I learned the lesson that the humans had to learn about the atevi, and that Bren quickly realized about the shipfolk: seeming familiarity may conceal great difference. I’m waiting for something quirky to be revealed about Mospheiran culture, similar, maybe, to their attitude toward the Pilot’s Guild that was a result of their history. I think it’s all part of the richness and complexity of CJ’s world building. Well, there the Mospheirans are in their middle-class milieu, their “cities with high rises and glass” (thanks, Sleo!)–but what else might they be? What Mospheiran attitudes could affect the contact with the Kyo? Shawn still backs Bren–but what about the rest of the population? Do future plot complications lie in that direction?
Well, CJ might not go down that path. That’s okay. I’ll take just about any story she’ll tell. But I like to think about the Other in the familiar–a great science fiction theme.
Oh, I don’t even think we’d have a story without the Mospheirans. And they did, after all, have the spunk to rebel against the pilots originally!
The thing is, any story involving the island Mospheirans in a major way would make the books ‘less SF’ and thus less interesting to me. There is enough other literature around dealing with human situations, and I have always been most interested in SF – alien environments and interactions, action out in space, and so on.
Besides, the Mospheirans we’ve met so far are SO (italics) inane, dull and predictable, insular and generally unpleasant, except perhaps Gin up at the station. The ship staff are more interesting, perhaps because they are functioning in an ‘SF environment’ – the same goes for the humans in the Alliance-Union universe.
Yes, that rebellion against the Pilot’s Guild means Mospheirans have some history of not being pliant and complacent. . . You know, I think the oddest element in the Foreigner series is that time gap, in the first volume, between the first contact between the human invaders and the atevi and the appearance of Bren. CJ skips the whole story of what happens after that first contact, as described in the book, and the War and the establishment of paidhiin. That’s a whole ‘nother book. . . Will it ever get written I wonder. . .
J. R. R. Tolkien and Ursula K. Le Guin created appendices to their books to handle auxiliary material. Maybe we’ll one day get appendices for the human/atevi world. For example, somebody in this forum wondered about what happened to the rest of Taylor’s Children. That info could be given in an appendix–if, that is, it does not emerge as part of a future book!
Speaking of Taylor, I noticed that no mention is made of the Phoenix’s pilots operating under the influence of the drug that Taylor used (which hearkens back to CJ’s book Hellburner). Did the technology of piloting change?
Yes – an appendix similar to Tolkien’s, though perhaps not as lengthy or complex, would be really good. A lot of explanatory material could be thrown into it, and described in a relatively simple way.
However, for the moment I’d much rather the focus were on further titles in the sequence. I’d like to see the Machigi arc tied up fairly rapidly, then to see more space-based action, rather than more planetary politics. Atevi planetary politics have been fascinating and varied, but perhaps we need a break from them for a volume or two (or three)? The space-based titles, like Explorer, were so brilliant. I loved the way, for instance, that the Atevi (with Bren’s help) took over those quarters on the station, and all the action on the other space station.
Sapphire, it seems odd to me that you can say in one breath that SF is about “alien environments and interactions” and dispose of Mospheira with an airy wave in two adjacent sentences. Hello, interaction? Mospheira is inextricably part of the mix. Not all islanders are inane, dull, and predictable, whether you like Toby and Shawn or not.
Rigel, CJ has established that the Jump tech used in the Alliance books is different from the ‘tunneling’ tech used in the Foreigner ‘verse. Agreed, in the first book the pilots used drugs, but it seemed to me, at least, that it was with a different intent–Jump drugs are trank, necessary (except for some species and a very few determined humans) to take the edge off the sensory experience while computers do the driving; the first pilots of Phoneix were using drugs to enable hyperfocus while they were driving, weren’t they?
Let’s say we have certain differences in perception, Jcrow9, and let’s agree to differ, shall we?
I’ve said I will not engage in discussions on a particular topic in future and will stick to that promise.
I suspect there’s enough auxiliary material in CJC’s notes to make at least one large encyclopedia, possibly more. It would indeed be neat for it to get published. I suspect, though, that she’d rather write more stories.
For that matter, I’d like to see concordances/encyclopedias for the Compact (Chanur Saga) and Alliance-Union. While I’m wishing, I’ll wish for more Compact stories. Hani-centered would be nice; love them. Others (mahen?) could be interesting too.
Yup, in an ideal universe I’d have lots of time to read again, too….
BlueCatShip–and I suspect that most of us would rather be reading more stories, too.
Still, maybe one day, some fan or academic will undertake to create this auxiliary material, with CJ’s permission and assistance.
I’d like to read a sequel to Cuckoo’s Egg. I found the hatani fascinating.
JCrow9, my question was, do the Phoenix pilots of Bren’s day use the hyperfocus drug that Taylor used? There was something about the descriptions of the Phoenix bridge in Explorer that made me wonder if the tech had changed. There does not seem to be that focus on the pilot– the bridge centered on the pilots when the ship was moving in folded space during Taylor’s flight. The Phoenix bridge of Bren’s age seems clearly focused on the captains. Of course, these latter day Phoenix flights are pretty routine; the ship is not lost in space.
Oh, I’m aware that these are details that are not relevant to the plots of the series–but attention to such details is what, IMO, makes the writing seem “real,” makes it possible to get so caught up in the stories and that makes them such a pleasure to read. I still smile when I think of the green pizza introduced in Invader.
One thing I was going to comment on: I really miss the banter between Banichi and Bren in, for example, Inheritor (Bren calling Banichi ‘my salad’, Banichi enquiring in an amused way as an aside to a serious topic about Bren and Jago’s love life, etc.). I’ve also missed the relationship between Bren and Jago. For me, the most interesting characters in the whole sequence are Bren, Banichi, Jago, Tabini, Tano, Algini and Ilisidi. I love to see them all play prominent parts in the stories.
Nokhada of the mechieti is also an interesting character. 🙂
I’ve always wondered exactly how Phoenix got lost to begin with. Wormhole? Also curious about Taylor’s other Children and their stories.
I was originally a little thrown by the time gap in the first series, and wonder exactly how/if Bren is or isn’t descended from the two earliest “main” characters (can’t find my copy of Foreignor or I’d have names–sorry, moving.)
I’m always happy when the mechieti show up, and anytime Ilisidi or Cenedi is centerstage. (Now THERE’S a story to be told!) As sexy as Banichi is, Cenedi is the Sean Connery of atevi.
Oops, “ForeignEr.” M’bad.
@Rigeldeneb, that’s a good observation. I’ve brainstormed a few theories.
1) hyperfocus drugs are only used on superlong “blind” jumps; current procedure is shorter “local” jumps with more “feeling around” from within hyperspace.
2) the supply of hyperfocus drug ran out and cannot be replicated or produced onboard, so workarounds had to be devised.
Possibly a combination of the first two?
3) “Taylor’s Children” who actually are of Taylor’s lineage/legacy inherited his ability to produce the drug on their own, so external stores are not neccesary.
4) The drugged-up Pilot is kept in a room separated from the Bridge, a vital component not exposed to risk from (or even disclosure to) atevi.
‘Taylor’s Children’ are apparently descendants of all the crewmembers who had to go out to fuel (and repair?) the ship at the double star. It’s never mentioned whether Taylor had any children of his own.
@rollingstone, my favorite (amusing) theory is that some fool decided that the new colony simply could not do without the full annotated series run of “Jersey Shore” which had failed the cultural relevance litmus test for being included into Archive; said fool used illicit access codes to cram hundreds of gigabytes of uber-fidelity HD *.avi files into any computer storage he could find — in this case, partially overwriting and corrupting the starcharts. Earth *is* out there, but it’s lost in “Strawberry Fields”, not stellar noise.
My more serious theory is that a major temporal dislocation occurred because of the drive malfunction — pulsars and quasars haven’t been found because either they don’t even exist yet, or have burned out and been replaced by other phenomenon. Phoenix could even (physically) be near where they started!
Xheralt:”hyperfocus drugs used only on superlong blind jumps” but not needed for for local or known destinations–hey, that makes sense, though according to the story, robots are sent out first. (And it matches the preternatural ability to detect new jump points that Chur Anify of the hani series develops after an “accident” in space. Exploratory long jumps seemingly require some kind of altered mental states).
I’m looking at my copy of Foreigner. . .The opening chapter speaks of folded time rather than of folded space, as is said in Bren’s time, but the terminology may not matter: space is time and time is space, because of the velocities involved?
Taylor’s story, the 3 chapters of Book One in Foreigner, gives no clue as to the cause of the accident that I could find. I think it is realistic that Phoenix (and we readers) may never find out–the Universe is full of unsolved mysteries and subject to Murphy’s Law. The state of a pilot in Taylor’s condition–his mind now producing the hyperfocus drug–is, IMO, spooky and tragic. Taylor appears to have been unsleeping for the entire 3 years it took the ship to mine fuel and find a new destination: awake but unaware, simply waiting for new data to be provided by “authorized” voices before he could take action. His co-pilot dies in the original incident–piloting is perilous. Taylor pilots Phoenix to the atevi star, then shuts down, or, as he puts it, sleeps. Spooky.
Rollingstone–you are so right. Cenedi is as cool as Sean Connery. In Foreigner, when Bren does not yet know Banichi well and has just met Cenedi, he sees a strong resemblance between the two, except that Cenedi looks older (I’m quoting here: “And a man, Banichi’s very image./Who was standing in the doorway./ His heart jumped./ Cenedi walked in. . .”) What’s up with that, I wonder?
Oh, no – no one beats Banichi for me as far as the charisma of a male Ateva goes (though Tabini comes close). Cenedi is wonderful, but I don’t feel I know him as well as Banichi. They are all undoubtedly really enigmatic and ‘cool’. 🙂
I just love it when Banichi jokes in that deadpan way with Bren and Jago in Inheritor.
I just thought: maybe time folds for the pilots, because of the speed at which they must process data, but space folds for the passengers because they are traveling. . .
Humans are fragile in CJ’s universes. In the Alliance/Union worlds, and the Mri series and the hani series, humans need to be drugged during spaceflight–or think they need it; in the Foreigner series they seem to get a little goofier than the atevi do during spaceflight, not to mention that we are so much smaller and wispier than atevi.
well, I have just got the first three books off the shelf, I have to start reading them again ….
and what a wonderful cover too, on Foreigner – Michael Whelan – his are always the best, I think. Silver-studded Banichi and Jago towering over Bren with his bandage and his laptop ….
The Foreigner cover is iconic, but I think I prefer the slightly looser, more ‘realistic’ covers for Deceiver and Conspirator, in which the Atevi look real and all have different faces looking just as I have imagined them (especially on the Deceiver cover).
Comparisons are invidious, but I love Michael Whelan’s Jago, she is really beautiful, and the clarity of his vision is amazing (just looking at Invader) these 2 are Legend books paperback; the next is Daw books and no attribution for the cover, which I like a lot less – because I have my own picture of the mechita, which to me, privately, are more like horses, than these lizard/camel creatures! that’s because I made up my mind what they were like in the first book with no picture.
I like Whelan’s Chanur covers very much too.
Whelan is well-known for his wonderful covers – he is particularly good at depicting aliens, like the Kif on a Chanur cover. It’s a shame he has given up illustrating covers, because in my view they comprise the best of his work.
Oh, that’s bad news that Whelan has given up cover art! One of his covers stopped me dead in my tracks on a city street. I bought the book on the strength of the cover, and the title: M. A. Foster’s The Gameplayers of Zan. A woman is floating in the glowing blue of a tesseract, a star field behind her and a lit-up control panel beneath her. I’ve always been glad that Whelan’s cover caught my eye. The Gameplayers of Zan is a wonderful story–great characters and a most intriguing proposal for interstellar flight. It is one of my all-time favorite books, not just SF books, but among all the books I’ve ever read.
Does anybody else know this author?
Whelan also did the covers for Foster’s Day of the Klesh and CJ’s Cuckoo’s Egg and The Faded Sun: Kutath. The colors he uses are so rich. You can almost always tell a Whelan cover by the saturated colors and the incredible detail. He’s a hard act to follow.
I’ve liked the depictions of Illisidi so far. The various artists have gotten her imperiousness, I think.
Oh yes. M A Foster is worth looking for. (Try The Morphodite and the books following it.)
PJ, I do have the Morphodite series and find thee books fascinating, especially the chapter epigrams for Transformer and Preserver, which are attributed to H.C., Atropine. Whelan did the cover for Transformer.
The notion that some non-famous non-obvious, practically invisible person is the linchpin of a society is, I think, most intriguing.