This is so sad. I have been looking at the gorgeous photos and wondering when you were planning to open your pond
I find looking at my fish a lovely way to calm down when things get crazy.
Do you plan are getting more?
Definitely. We had an extremely cold and long winter, and best I can figure is that somehow, at some point, we lost power to the heater that was keeping the aeration hole open. If one died, the water conditions would have gone south, fast, and that was it. Nothing we could have known. First step will be chemistry: then when the local pond shop opens, we’ll be looking for a number of little ones and start over. We WILL have to net the pond again: they’d gotten so big most predators couldn’t handle them. Now we’ll have bite-sized fish and just try, try again. We’re very sad. But it was nothing we could have even reached had we known about it, with a foot and a half of snow and ice over everything.
Oh no! They weren’t just pets, they were personalities in their own right who interacted with their environment (viewing the wider world through the view dome) Sincere sympathy for your loss!
You’d think there would be a remote monitoring system for ponds, at least temperature and oxygen level, that would sound an alarm should things become critical.
There might be, but I’ve not found it. They’ve been part of our household for going on 10 years, with some bad winters, and no troubles, but this year…
My parents felt the same way when they were cleaning the pond. Apparently the lid on the container that held the koi was on too tightly and too long a time. They were 17 years old..
Eureka! OK, it was a shower, not a bath. But I have a few ideas. (Presumably you’ve got a fake rock or something next to the pond to hide electrical work.)
1) One can buy a plugin ammeter. Plug it into the power outlet, plug something into it, read off the current draw. If the heater isn’t working there’ll be no current.
2) Put an air pump and tube down to the bottom of the pond. When the surface freezes over, it’s unlikely to create a micro “polynia” in a winter like this, the air will leak out at the edges, but at least they’ll have fresh air.
3) Put a water pump with a couple nozzles spraying water right at surface level under the waterfall. Moving water freezes with difficulty.
The water pump spray should provide an obvious indication power is gettting there. I’d plug the power to all three into the ammeter. You’d have to check on things periodically, but at least you’d have indicators that there’re problems.
I’m more affected than most males with “kvetch about a problem and he’ll try to fix it.” My Aspie brain catches at puzzles.
How about a remote thermometer? That way you would see directly if the temperature in the vicinity of the heater leaves the desired range, and can also monitor temperatures during the summer.
In addition to what paul said: How about redundancy? Existing heater (on power meter) and second heater (with it’s own cable and power meter, from a different circuit)? And additionally an air hose from inside the house. It’s the mechanical engineer speaking, here 🙂
I did think about such a thing, like a digital remote oven thermometer, but didn’t think one would be more than half a meter, or at most meter of distance. But, yes, we’re thinking along the same lines, some kind of sensing so CJ can observe a malfunction.
I even thought of something like a miniature of MBARI’s kelp tank surge pump (of which I’m shocked Google can’t find me an image) to keep the water agitated so it wouldn’t freeze over. But I’m not sure just which problem to solve, aeration, uniced surface, or temperature at depth? I am sure Mother Nature can be a formidable adversary when one tries to prevent her from doing what she’s determined to do.
I solder. Got solder, got iron and “pencils”. That’s how I made my first IMSAI personal computer back in ’76, ref: War Games. One really built one’s own back in those days!
I helped my roommate build a Heath terminal, although he dealt with the CRT tube. But it was my sister that taught me how to solder. Have iron, have nearly a pound of (old) eutectic solder, have wire stripper (not spring-loaded).
I’m wondering about a birdbath heater in a shallow area, to keep it open there and allow for easier aeration. They’re not big heaters, and in a deeper area they’d need to be supported close to the surface (upside down large flower pot, maybe).
BTW, birdbath heaters must not be on when it’s not freezing! Then the warming of the water promotes bacterial growth. Do not just throw one in, plug it in, and retreat until Spring!
Has it been determined why the fishies perished? Too cold, not enough oxygen in the water, or a combination? The right problem needs to be solved here.
We’re pretty sure it was buildup of carbon dioxide in the water. The heater should have kept the ice open, but that may have failed. I’ve ordered a unit to take the place of the heater that also vents.
One of the semi-technical problems is that the water ‘layers’ during a freeze, so that deep down the pond stays warmer than at the surface, due to ground temperature, and any circulation pump disrupts that; on the other hand, maybe one set in the shallow end with a second heater would be useful—the pond is shaped roughly like Britain and the deep end is Scotland.
We may also have had an intersection of problems. The floating winter cover came free of its mooring and drifted into the area the heater was trying to keep open.
There’s also the uncommon length of this freeze. We were iced pretty well from just after Halloween and a foot and a half of snow atop that, which may have contributed to the problem. I’ll be thinking about aeration of some sort, however, as we clean up and re-set-up. We won’t be able to get fishes until April, at earliest, and maybe until May. We’re also asking ourselves if the population was a little too much: I know ponds in the south have many, many more times the population—but we don’t have that great a depth over the whole pond (basalt underlies the lawn) and maybe we should not replace everybody.
‘s’OK. Wouldn’t have to put it at the bottom if the idea is to keep disturbing the surface so’s it doesn’t freeze over. My worry is a motor that’d run outdoors 24x7x100 in freezing weather without seizing. If open surface is enough oxygenation for the fish, even if the bubbler was near the surface, it should provide more than that.
I still rather like the idea of a jet of water at the surface below the waterfall–same basic idea as the spray in Olympic diving so they can see where the surface is.
Research has turned up something relatively inexpensive that takes the place of the heater: it’s an aerator that doesn’t disturb the layering and allegedly works to -20 degrees and 15″ ice depth: we don’t get that extreme. But I’ve ordered it, step one of the re-do.
And a quick Google search turned up something called a Seneye Pond Pack which includes a floating sensor unit, a sealed unit to keep electrics dry and a Wifi link. Since I know squat about ponds and what constitutes pricey in this context (it seems to cover water chemistry much more than you’d need and runs about $400 with all bells and whistles) The point being that if this system exists, there must be other, more modest alternatives out there.
Oh no! That is just awful! You have had them for so long they are part of the family! Very sad. I know that one of the beauties of koi is they can survive the winter. There is a koi pond my kids and I used to visit at a local jewelers, if you can believe it, in Connecticut. We were always amazed at how they survived the winter and came back to be fed by us each spring/summer. That was not a very big pond, either. I don’t know what they do to maintain it. I hope you find a solution and hope your new koi prosper.
My condolences to you and Jane.
This is so sad. I have been looking at the gorgeous photos and wondering when you were planning to open your pond
I find looking at my fish a lovely way to calm down when things get crazy.
Do you plan are getting more?
Definitely. We had an extremely cold and long winter, and best I can figure is that somehow, at some point, we lost power to the heater that was keeping the aeration hole open. If one died, the water conditions would have gone south, fast, and that was it. Nothing we could have known. First step will be chemistry: then when the local pond shop opens, we’ll be looking for a number of little ones and start over. We WILL have to net the pond again: they’d gotten so big most predators couldn’t handle them. Now we’ll have bite-sized fish and just try, try again. We’re very sad. But it was nothing we could have even reached had we known about it, with a foot and a half of snow and ice over everything.
Oh no! They weren’t just pets, they were personalities in their own right who interacted with their environment (viewing the wider world through the view dome) Sincere sympathy for your loss!
You’d think there would be a remote monitoring system for ponds, at least temperature and oxygen level, that would sound an alarm should things become critical.
There might be, but I’ve not found it. They’ve been part of our household for going on 10 years, with some bad winters, and no troubles, but this year…
That settles it, now you’ve got to keep this image in memoriam.
OK now, this is just an engineering problem. We can solve this! Ideas are already bubbling, {wink, wink, nudge, nudge}
My parents felt the same way when they were cleaning the pond. Apparently the lid on the container that held the koi was on too tightly and too long a time. They were 17 years old..
This is dreadful news; so sorry to hear it! The world is truly out of whack.
Oh no! That’s awful news.
That’s terrible! One is hoping for a couple to have survived, although it is unlikely.
Eureka! OK, it was a shower, not a bath. But I have a few ideas. (Presumably you’ve got a fake rock or something next to the pond to hide electrical work.)
1) One can buy a plugin ammeter. Plug it into the power outlet, plug something into it, read off the current draw. If the heater isn’t working there’ll be no current.
2) Put an air pump and tube down to the bottom of the pond. When the surface freezes over, it’s unlikely to create a micro “polynia” in a winter like this, the air will leak out at the edges, but at least they’ll have fresh air.
3) Put a water pump with a couple nozzles spraying water right at surface level under the waterfall. Moving water freezes with difficulty.
The water pump spray should provide an obvious indication power is gettting there. I’d plug the power to all three into the ammeter. You’d have to check on things periodically, but at least you’d have indicators that there’re problems.
I’m more affected than most males with “kvetch about a problem and he’ll try to fix it.” My Aspie brain catches at puzzles.
No no no. Oh, hell. Sorry to hear it.
Too sad 🙁
How about a remote thermometer? That way you would see directly if the temperature in the vicinity of the heater leaves the desired range, and can also monitor temperatures during the summer.
In addition to what paul said: How about redundancy? Existing heater (on power meter) and second heater (with it’s own cable and power meter, from a different circuit)? And additionally an air hose from inside the house. It’s the mechanical engineer speaking, here 🙂
I did think about such a thing, like a digital remote oven thermometer, but didn’t think one would be more than half a meter, or at most meter of distance. But, yes, we’re thinking along the same lines, some kind of sensing so CJ can observe a malfunction.
I even thought of something like a miniature of MBARI’s kelp tank surge pump (of which I’m shocked Google can’t find me an image) to keep the water agitated so it wouldn’t freeze over. But I’m not sure just which problem to solve, aeration, uniced surface, or temperature at depth? I am sure Mother Nature can be a formidable adversary when one tries to prevent her from doing what she’s determined to do.
I was thinking along the lines of https://www.amazon.com/Refrigerator-Freezer-Fridge-Digital-Thermometer/dp/B00ORK965Y/ref=sr_1_25?ie=UTF8&qid=1488655553&sr=8-25&keywords=remote+thermometer
Cut the wire, put a longer one there (telephone cable), seal properly and place the sensor where you want to measure. There are also electronic solutions available (one-wire DS20 or the like), but those require soldering skills and additional hardware.
I solder. Got solder, got iron and “pencils”. That’s how I made my first IMSAI personal computer back in ’76, ref: War Games. One really built one’s own back in those days!
I helped my roommate build a Heath terminal, although he dealt with the CRT tube. But it was my sister that taught me how to solder. Have iron, have nearly a pound of (old) eutectic solder, have wire stripper (not spring-loaded).
I’m wondering about a birdbath heater in a shallow area, to keep it open there and allow for easier aeration. They’re not big heaters, and in a deeper area they’d need to be supported close to the surface (upside down large flower pot, maybe).
BTW, birdbath heaters must not be on when it’s not freezing! Then the warming of the water promotes bacterial growth. Do not just throw one in, plug it in, and retreat until Spring!
Has it been determined why the fishies perished? Too cold, not enough oxygen in the water, or a combination? The right problem needs to be solved here.
We’re pretty sure it was buildup of carbon dioxide in the water. The heater should have kept the ice open, but that may have failed. I’ve ordered a unit to take the place of the heater that also vents.
We’re so sorry to hear of your dreadful loss. They will be missed.
Poor fishies. 🙁
oh nooooooooo, that’s terrible, I’m so sorry.
I love the way Paul and Ektus are straight onto sorting out the engineering though ….
One of the semi-technical problems is that the water ‘layers’ during a freeze, so that deep down the pond stays warmer than at the surface, due to ground temperature, and any circulation pump disrupts that; on the other hand, maybe one set in the shallow end with a second heater would be useful—the pond is shaped roughly like Britain and the deep end is Scotland.
We may also have had an intersection of problems. The floating winter cover came free of its mooring and drifted into the area the heater was trying to keep open.
There’s also the uncommon length of this freeze. We were iced pretty well from just after Halloween and a foot and a half of snow atop that, which may have contributed to the problem. I’ll be thinking about aeration of some sort, however, as we clean up and re-set-up. We won’t be able to get fishes until April, at earliest, and maybe until May. We’re also asking ourselves if the population was a little too much: I know ponds in the south have many, many more times the population—but we don’t have that great a depth over the whole pond (basalt underlies the lawn) and maybe we should not replace everybody.
‘s’OK. Wouldn’t have to put it at the bottom if the idea is to keep disturbing the surface so’s it doesn’t freeze over. My worry is a motor that’d run outdoors 24x7x100 in freezing weather without seizing. If open surface is enough oxygenation for the fish, even if the bubbler was near the surface, it should provide more than that.
I still rather like the idea of a jet of water at the surface below the waterfall–same basic idea as the spray in Olympic diving so they can see where the surface is.
This is just an engineering problem!
Research has turned up something relatively inexpensive that takes the place of the heater: it’s an aerator that doesn’t disturb the layering and allegedly works to -20 degrees and 15″ ice depth: we don’t get that extreme. But I’ve ordered it, step one of the re-do.
There are the sintered stone ends, but I worried they’d get clogged in an outdoor pond.
And a quick Google search turned up something called a Seneye Pond Pack which includes a floating sensor unit, a sealed unit to keep electrics dry and a Wifi link. Since I know squat about ponds and what constitutes pricey in this context (it seems to cover water chemistry much more than you’d need and runs about $400 with all bells and whistles) The point being that if this system exists, there must be other, more modest alternatives out there.
Oh no! That is just awful! You have had them for so long they are part of the family! Very sad. I know that one of the beauties of koi is they can survive the winter. There is a koi pond my kids and I used to visit at a local jewelers, if you can believe it, in Connecticut. We were always amazed at how they survived the winter and came back to be fed by us each spring/summer. That was not a very big pond, either. I don’t know what they do to maintain it. I hope you find a solution and hope your new koi prosper.
My condolences to you and Jane.
And I meant to tell you how much I love the picture of the koi on this blog! So sad. (I’m the fan who asked after them at PhilCon)
my deepest empathy. it is sad to lose a living thing.
jonathan up i new hampshire – a thin snow last night
Oh no, I’m so sorry. They had such personality.
So sorry to hear that.